tv The Last Word MSNBC October 8, 2013 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
immature to have an abortion, but not to immature to be forced to become a mother. we'll bring you updates on this case as we get them. if the government sthutdohut doe not going on in washington. one of the biggest political stories in the country. you otherwise may not have heard about it. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. thanks. president obama took 18 question tuesday at his press conference. speaker john boehner took exactly two questions. so who's the guy who is a frayed -- afraid of talking about the shutdown. >> republicans have no interest in shutting down the government. >> shutting down the government is irresponsible. it is as simple as that. >> day act of the government shutdown. >> full steam ahead on a government shutdown. >> this is a very complicated
>> new polls show no one smelling like roses. >> 70% disapproval rating. >> 70%, put the fault with republicans. their numbers are declining. >> i know the american people are tired of it. lord knows i'm teared of ired o. this is not a complicated fpiec of business. >> eyeing the debt ceiling. >> all about the debt ceiling. a all this talk about default. >> it's nonsense. >> demagoguery. false demagoguery. >> when i hear people trying to downplay the skon conventions of that. >> nonsense. >> a lot of demagoguery. >> irresponsible. >> alternatives are popping up. >> some discussion about my powers under the 14th amendment. that's going to make people nervous. >> very hard to get into sound bites. >> there is no clear way out of this. >> there are no magic bullets here. >> we are now on day eight of the government shutdown. >> day act of the government
shutdown. >> our goal wasn't to shut down the government. i don't think we should default on our debt >> we have got to stop repeating this pattern. the american people are tired of it. lord knows i'm tired of it. tonight senate majority leader harry reid introduce aid perfectly reasonable, one sentence bill that would raise the debt ceiling until the end of next year which is a perfectly reasonable time frame for a typical debt ceiling increase in the past. the senate will vote on that perfectly reasonable bill this week. mostly for nostalgia reasons. but the most important thing that happened to is that john boehner admitted the new republican talking point is a lie. here is boehner on sunday. >> every -- modern history has negotiated over debt limit. debt limits have been used to force big policy changes in washington. >> uh-uh. as i explained in last night's
rewrite. that statement is not true. no president in modern history had how to negotiate over a debt limit increase. debt limits have never, never, been used to force big policy changes in washington. raising the debt ceiling was never once seriously in doubt before speaker john boehner's house of representatives. john boehner rewrote that lie he was telling. this way. >> over the last 40 years, 27 times, the debt limit has been used to carry significant -- significant policy changes that would in fact reduce spending and put us on a saner fiscal path. president reagan o'neill in the. president bush in 1990. went out to andrew air force base got into a long debate and negotiation with democrats here in congress. bill clinton went through this three times in the 1990s.
president obama and i sat down in 2011. and, had a serious negotiation. >> the debt limit has been used to carry significant policy changes. those exact boehner words. that's a significant change. from what boehner had previously said. and it land him more safely within the parliamentary history of debt ceiling votes as i explained here last night. see you should have been here last night. but, the most accurate way to say it, is simply that the debt ceiling has been included as ate completely noncontroversial and frequently invisible element in a, much larger bills, generally having something to do with the budget. something important to dupe wo the budget. the white house didn't have to watch the rewrite to know it. everybody there knew it. today is the first day the president made the point very clear. point we made here last night. >> if you look at the history. people posture about the debt ceiling frequently.
but the way the debt ceiling often got passed you would stick the debt ceiling on to a budget negotiation once it was completed. people figured -- i don't want to take a bunch of tough votes to cut programs, raise taxes then have to take a debt ceiling vote. let me do it all at once. but it wasn't a situation in which, if i've don't -- if i've don't get what i want -- then i am going to let us default. that's what's changed. and that's what we learned in 2011. >> and that is absolutely troupe. in his press conference today, the president described what republicans seem to think the word negotiation means. >> speaker boehner, at least some faction of the republicans in the house and maybe some in the senate, are holding out for a -- a negotiation in theory but in fact -- basically democrats give a lot of concessions to republicans, republicans don't give anything.
and then -- that's -- that's dubbed as compromise. the reason that democrats have to give is -- because they're worried that -- the government is going to stay shut down or -- or u.s. government is going to default. and -- and, again. that you can dress it up any way you want. if that's the theory that the republicans are going forward with, then it is not going to work. >> i am not going to breach a basic principle that would weaken the presidency, change our democracy, and do great damage to ordinary people. just in order to go along with -- what the house republicans are talking about. >> weakening the presidency as the president put it is exactly what the house republicans are determined to do. and that is why john boehner is ineffect saying that anything that doesn't weaken the presidency in a loss for john boehner and his republicans. >> well the president said today -- what the president said today was if there is
unconditional surrender by republicans he will sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. >> joy reid and arie, this has become so absurd. boehner describing unconditional surrender. something he was willing to do. get the debt ceiling raised. never let the government shut down. >> heap is saying "i didn't co here to shut the government down and not raise the debt ceiling and hatch ve us default. then don't. john boehner, man up. explain the call. not the way we govern. sit down and let the grownups raise the debt ceiling the way they have done uncontroversially. over and over again. >> i'm insisting this is about weakening the presidency. the republicans created the modern imperial presidency under richard nixon.
they see ruining the presidency is increasingly difficult. demographics, hispanic vote. positions on immigration, all sorts of things. women's issues, abortion, so forth. they have just decided it is not in republican party's interest to have a strong presidency. we are going to make the presidency as difficult as the it can be? >> yeah, look. this is a sad time to follow politics and also an interesting time. andn't the and the thesis you put forth. they lost the popular vote in five of six elections for president. they know they have a lot of people who are jerry mannederge. and radical changes in the senate house, super majority requirement, gives extra power to the minority. the conversations would this hurt them in the next election? hurt them in the presidency? or hurt them holding the majority? you don't need a majority if
your goal is sabotage. you don't. you can do it with the minority. you can do it in the senate with obstruction. in boehner's caucus, this guy must be lying, don't have the votes. we know he does. won't bring it to the floor. the bare majority, though they lost popularity in the house, works. we have systemic problems underlying it. what was most interesting about john boehner's staements tement. he doesn't believe it. several as go. he said the opposite, not deficit cutting, it was obama care. the deficit has been cut by half, the president said today. >> let's go to more what the president said in his news conference. he talked about the concept of ransom, something we are going to be hearing in every presidential press conference as long as this crisis goes on: >> key members of congress and house of representatives, don't get to demand ransom in exchange for their jobs. two of their jobs are passing a
budget and make sure america is paying its bills. they don't also get to say, you know, unless you get me what the voters rejected in the last election i will cause a recession. that's not how it works. >> joy, everything we are talking about here, keeping the government open. the debt ceiling. these are all unique congressional powers. the president is just a signature on something the congress must do. it is their action to take. what are they even looking down the street at the white house for on this? >> for cover. because right now, they need to d demonstrate to their base. >> i asked that rhetorically. i want to make that clear -- >> ha-ha. a rhetorical. >> wicked dumb sounding question in its way. go ahead. >> it's true. the republican party, they understand they have unpopular positions. they cannot enact their dream world through the legislative process. cannot win elections to enact
policies. to think. they believe this is the way it should be. they cannot do it. they are now essentially taking hostages. this is beyond the hostage situation. they have shot a hostage. they went ahead and shut the government down. having done that, you cannot then go to the hostage negotiator, say why won't you talk to me? sit down have a conversation. you shot one of the hostages already. what in any one's rational thinking makes you believe they wouldn't go ahead and breach the debt ceiling. several are saying it's fine to do that. we understand these are not people who can be negotiated with. they want unpopular policies forced on to the majority in the country and forced even on to the majority in their party. >> the president said something clarifying to me. about the whole 14th amendment issue. we discussed last time the debt ceiling was at issue. what about indications that the president probably does have the power within the constitution to simply ineffect raise the debt ceiling himself? i was a real, you know, interested fan of that idea. it was because it was novel.
never seen it before. i didn't see anything wrong with it. the president thinks there is swrou wrong with it. he made that clear today. talking about making, how would you fool if yeel if you were bu house if you weren't sure of the title. let's listen. >> if you are buying a house and you are not sure whether the seller has title to the house you are going to be pretty nervous about buying it. and at minimum, you would want to -- a much -- cheaper price to buy that house because you wouldn't beep su sure whether o you are going to on it. same thing is true, if i am buying treasury bills from the u.s. government. here i am sitting here, what if there is a supreme court case deciding that -- these aren't valid. these are -- you know, valid legal instruments. obligating the u.s. government to pay for it. >> arie, there he is doing what a president should do.
taking every step out. he has to take it to go. well, wait a minute. i remember last time around. bill clinton off handedly saying the president should be able to do that. i was thinking, you know i think the president should be able to do that and should do it. now you see some one of greater prudence than i, much greater, i think is completely right about this. the way he put that today. i don't seep h how you argue wi that. >> what he is saying is a financial fact. >> forget the constitutional. >> reality to it if you try to exercise it that its seriously problematic. >> we know that. we are dealing with an area, a great deal of financial information abut the price of certainty versus less certainty versus a tossup. that's why mortgage backed securities have higher interests and tauss. argentinan bonds don't couldn't the same ice american bonds cut. when you violate that certainty, markets react to that. that is a fact.
as a lawyer, a lot of lawyers who disagree. as a lawyer i do think that when you are the president and you are in a situation where you have conflicting constitutional demands from congress, you have higher authority to act in emergency powers. by which i've mean the congress is saying, here under law spend. here, under law don't pay your debts. right, those are conflicting demand. debts are due. that's a constitutional point. to your point and presidential point. the constitutional point as a practical matter for 401(k)s, markets may come second to the fact of the economic sabotage. the other point about congress here, congress is not static. the game john boehner is playing is dangerous. he raised the bar on what it means to oppose obama. we moved from a vote, debate. you have to obstruct and deep feet everything. i'm not sure whether debt ceiling votes are for him in the long run. >>. >> jimmy: reid, and arie. >> you are here for your wisdom and expertise, as always. also, because you just, you
wouldn't return my e-maim. -- e-maim. i send you an e-mail that is two weeks old. and you have a big fan out there. a personal thing. you got a big fan out there. i want you'd to know about. >> i mram oblame outlook. >> joe russell. big joy reid favenn. everything i have to tell you i have to tell you on the air. you won't accept personal e-mails from me. >> outlook does not ak set yocc. >> praise from the king, bill russell all. haw i will search for the e-mail and send it back. >> i will send it again. personal business is done. >> jimmy: arie. thank you. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up. two of is going toly the the way out. the leadership cannot do it. which means it is all up to the staff. it is going to have to save them. in the rewrite tonight, another
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so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth. it's durable. and it's 3 times cleaner. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. >> republican leaders are sending mixed messages on what they are willing to negotiate over to reopen the government or raise the debt limit. >> the long and short of it is there is going to be a negotiation here. we can't raise the debt ceiling without doing something about what's driving us to borrow more money and to live beyond our
means. >> last week republican leadership was focussed exclusively on the affordable care act. as the one and only problem to reopening the government or raising the debt ceiling. and now -- i don't know what they want. >> democratic senators have said repeatedly, obama care is the law of the land and basically we should get used it. let me also point out to all of you that the budget control act is also the law of the land. >> yeah. thanks for pointing that. as republican leaders fail to present a cope heherent positio. the members of congress they're supposed to be leading, are becoming increasingly incoherent. >> mine household budget, some bills have to be paid, some bills we can defer or pay partially. i think paying interest on the debt has to be paid. i think paying social security payments have to be paid. but i don't think paying the
secretary of energy's travel expenses have to be paid 100 cents on the dollar. >> we are not going to default on the public debt. that doesn't mean we have to pay every bill the day it comes in 100 cents on the dollar. >> innane comments like that are leaving some veteran republican senators with absolutely no hope that the house of representatives will find their way out of the trap that they set for themselves. >> let's find a way that we can sit down. i don't care if it's apin tpoin people. informal conversations back and forth. there should be a way out of both of these dead-end that we are in. stow why don't we do this sooner rather than later? and why doesn't the senate lead? i have great respect for the other side of the capitol. but i understand the contradictions are there and difficulties that the speaker has. i am in great sympathy there.
why don't we get together? why don't we sit down? >> joining me is mark patterson former chief of staff to treasury secretary. and who is also former chief of staff, senate finance committee. mike lofgreen, long time congressional aide, in clueding six years on the senate budget committee. mark patterson, you worked in the majority leader's office. you know everything about how this stuff works. what, what is the staff doing backstage the c-span cameras are never going to find while their bosses are posturing the staffs know on both side we have got to fix this? >> the staffs are freaking out, lawrence. >> yes, there is that. first. >> you and i have worked on debt loan increases in our time. on this one i have never been more concerned that we are going to go off the tracks. but what i think and hope the republican staff are doing -- i help they're coming up with clever ways to impose restrictions on the congress in the federal budget process
through budget resolution process that they can use to point to and say we did something here. having done that we will palgs the debt limit. that is not a concession by the president. >> what is an example? >> they can impose new rules that have more teeth about the way the budget process works. the requirements that the conferences actually happen. the budget, budget resolution, most people don't ream ilize ne gets signed. >> resolution not a bill. >> concurrent resolution. not a joint one. >> promise to kong regs congres. >> looking for ways to change the rules. toughen them up. whether they're tougher or not. doesn't make a difference. figure out ways to fix the process. say "that's what we did. impose aid nd a new requirement. now we can pass the debt limit." awe mike, lofgreen, staff on both side always actually hate it when one of the members, someone they're working for makes an extreme statement. because they always know the extreme statement is not where
you are going to end up for a solution. and you are going to have to somehow work your way back. was what mark was saying, does that sound to you like something that republicans might be able to find their way too? >> i think it sound reasonable, lawrence. >> yeah, that's the problem. ayea yeah, you are right. sorry, it's impossible. >> we are not in a reasonable era right now. just a point of where i come from -- i was a an old-style, eisenhower republican who believed in governance. i was always able to have a coffee. with my democratic counterpart on the budget committee. we could resolve problems with amendments or scheduling or all sorts of things. but at some point in 2011 -- i was seeing the way congress was going. and it was in a bad direction and i could almost predict the
whole debt ceiling default debate in the summer of 2011. and within two months of my retiring that's what happened. so i wrote a book about it. i think it is only getting worse. these people are not republicans. they're not true conservatives. they're radicals who have an appetite for chaos, armageddon, and conflict. i have read about how some of the house members are giddy at the prospect of a shutdown and default. because it gives them the conflict that they seem to crave. >> mike, if you were still in the republican staff on the budget committee working anywhere in the congress and you heard these republican house members who are out there publicly saying, basically "let's try default. it's not so bad. there is even one republican,
house member who said he believes it is a good thing." in 30 seconds all they give you, what would you ftry to say to oe of the members about how wrong that notion is? >> this will damage the united states in international credit markets. we lucked out in 2008 and 2009, during the crash because interest rates were effectively zero. so it didn't cost us much to finance our debt. but if we default, interest rates will go up. and they'll go up on people's mortgages when they tripe y to out a mortgage on their house. >> you have to simplify the message for the audience. the message there is only one right answer. for the question of whether the united states of america pays all its bills. the answer is yes. nondebatable, non-negotiable
proposition. the message. the other stuff is right. not sure it is getting through. >> they start talking back, what about, they would say, we can prioritize them like we saw barton staying, don't pay, you know for the airfare for the secretary. which is nickels and dimes, you know. what would you say to ape g guye that? prioritize and don't pay them. >> nonsense. you see the business community getting more and more concerned the house is going in the direction. a bill to do this. full faith and credit act, a misgnomer. really default by another word. prioritization is defaulting on a huge swath of the u.s. government obligations. >> you were in the treasury the last time we approached this precipice of the debt ceiling not being raised. there is planning going on for the catastrophic possibility. brought out the plans again this time. what can you tell us that they're working on, in the event that nightmare moment hits.
>> tell you this. i don't know what will be decided. really up to the president. secretary of the treasury. when i looked at the options. not even damage control. damage mitigation. the damage will not be controlled. i can tell you this all options are awful. they all are going to impose huge swaths of pain across the economy on individuals who, don't deserve it. on social security recipient whose live check to check. pechl in the mill terry. other peop -- people in the military. goods, services for the government. awful people will be hit, hilt hard if we don't do the elemental thing. shouldn't be called the. >> mark patterson, chief of staff, and mike loffgren, author, analyst for the budget committee. thank you for joining me tonight. >> coming up the pain the shutdown is inflicting on some military families. this is absolutely tragic. it's coming up next.
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died will receive the benefits at lest that would give them some comfort and solace in this terrible hour of tragedy. >> in the spotlight tonight, the ultimate sacrifice. since shutdown began one week ago today. 17 active duty members of the united states armed services have lost their lives. including these five service members who died in afghanistan over the weekend. but because of the government shutdown, none of these soldiers families will receive the benefits they are entitled to including $100,000 tax-free death benefits that, that money is supposed to help the service members families with funeral expenses and any other financial obligations they incur. shannon collins, 19-year-old son, marine lance corporal jeremiah collins died in afghanistan on saturday.
>> there is nothing like this pain. for the sacrifice that our kids are making at the ages that they're making them i don't understand how this scan can be benefit that is withheld. i won't ever understand it. >> the pentagon says it does not have the legal authority to make those payments. a bipartisan group of isn't torz sent atorz -- of senators sent ape l letto chuck hague el today -- joining me now, msnbc contributor patrick murphy former congressman from pennsylvania who was the firest i rack w i -- the first iraq war veteran to cher serve in congress.
when you shut down the government there is no we to leave military personnel and military families completely harmless in a government shutdown as some republicans apparently believed. >> that is absolutely correct, lawrence. in fact, congress was briefed before the shutdown that this would happen. and they still went through it, lawrence. they still went through -- with this basically shut down that was initiated by the ted cruz tea party wing of the republican party. and that is the driving force of the house republicans right now. and the problem is, is our military families who have already sacrificed so much are bearing the brunt of this government shutdown. our military families and our veterans. >> patrick, the -- the rank ignorance among republicans in the house of representatives, demonstrated on everything from
what happens itch there if ther violate the debt ceiling. seems to extend to the arena. they seem completely surprised this could possibly have occurred. >> it's like they're not doing their jobs, lawrence. they were briefed on this. and they still went through with it. and it just -- as a veteran -- as a former congressman, i am embarrassed. i am embarrassed though i am not in washington anymore. i am embarrassed because of people like mrs. collins who gave her son for our country. i am embarrassed because ashley peters who lost her husband this weekend, a stay at home mom in springfield, montana, with a young son at home. doesn't get the death gratuity, benefits that she needs right now. i mean it just is disgusting what they're doing to our military families. and if everyday americans that are watching aren't paying attention, shame on us because what's going on in washington is
a disgrace. >> i want to read, you mentioned ashley peters. i want to read her statement which she asked that we read in full. patrick, he believed, and his widow ashley peters believed, that he had a bond, something much bigger than a deal, but a bond with the united states government on this. >> you know -- in the military, lawrence, i joined at 19. and we have a saying, leave no man behind. and it is a bond. you serve with your brothers, sisters. they're look blood brothers and blood sisters. you will do anything for them. and the house republicans -- to
turn their back on our veterans on those families they should be ashamed of themselves. i don't know how they looked at themselves in the mirror. i mean, some things should be above politics. this is clearly one of them. and they can't go and just say this wasn't our intent. your number one responsibility as a member of congress, lawrence you, know you worked on capitol hill. it is to pass budgets. no, these republicans are so quick to start these wars. but to take care of these troops when they come home -- or in these cases of these five americans who didn't make it home this weekend, not to be there for their families -- it's despicable. >> iraq war veteran, former congressman, patrick murphy. thank you for joining us on this very important issue. thank you, patrick. >> thanks, lawrence, i appreciate it.
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>> jersey governor chris christie debated his opponent tonight. christie was able to ask her one question. so of course the republican asked the democrat about taxes and the senator taught the governor a real lesson about taxes. >> we have chronicled for the public your 154 votes to raise taxes and fees. is there one of them that you regret? >> governor, you know that -- governor, you know that any administration including yourself has to find revenues to support the budget. the difference is who pays and huh they pay for it. and you came into office and raised the tax, the property tax on middle-class on average families you, raised taxes on the working poor, you raised the fares for commuters, the fact of
the matter is, governor i will never balance by budget on the backs of the working poor and the middle-class as you did. your whole tenure has been to support and to protect millionaires at the expense of the middle-class and the working poor. you are the last person to talk about taxes to anyone. >> that's a lesson the governor had to learn. and in the virginia governor's race, the virginia anti-sodomy law has been an issue and that issue is going to be once again in the rewrite. that's next. vo: reckless. rep. blackburn: people are probably going to realize... they can live with a lot less government. vo: destructive. rep. bachmann: this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. vo: the government shutdown is hurting veterans, seniors, and our kids. now tea party republicans are threatening... an economic shutdown. refusing to pay our nation's bills. endangering american jobs. tell them to stand up to the tea party.
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style. and this isn't just another episode. this is huge. this is the series finale. there is no way of telling who might get killed in this one. first -- a look back at some scenes previous, previously on sodomy virginia style. virginia's anti-sodomy law has become an issue in the campaign because the republican nominee, the attorney general, is fighting to keep virginia's anti-sodomy law alive after it was struck down by a federal appeals court. the actual name of the law is crimes against nature. and that law says -- if any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge he or she shall be guilty of a
class six felony. it does not simply prohibit what it calls carnal knowledge "by the anus" it also prohibits carnal knowledge "by or with the mouth" and because the law applies to "any person, any male or female person" end quote, that means any kind of carnal knowledge with a male or female mouth, coming into contact with a carnal body part of a male or female, in other words it prohibits most gay and straight sex. it does not include an exception for married couples. so the republican candidate for government government running on a plat foreign minister form to
as specified hear the appeal of the unconstitutionality of virginia's anti-domy law. the appeal that has been pushed him. now running substantially behind a deeply flawed democratic ka i candidate, who is at least in favor of oral sex which is all it takes to win the election. if oral sex was on the ballot in va v v virginia it would get more votes
than beth candidates. as this shows, oral sex with the opposite sex has been enjoyed by 90% of men and 89% of women. oral sex is second in popularity only to vaginal intercourse with the opposite sex. so if you are listening to this program on sethe radio, trying make tight mait to maryland, pu and find a hotel. relax, check the signs. see if there is a motel you. can get off anywhere on i-95, richmond, ashland, fredericksburg, pull into any motel and anything you can think of doing with another consenting adult in that motel room is going to be perfectly legal in virginia because once again, virginia is for lovers of oral sex and anal sex and gay sex and noisy sex and --
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trying to mount another recall campaign against a democrat in the state senate who voted for reform of the state's gun laws. the state's republican party chairman, ryan said, ryan said, this recall election would undermine our efforts in the governor's race, the u.s. senate race and to win a senate majority if voters perceive that republicans are trying to win a manhattan through recalls. last month, gun rights' advocates successfully recalled the state senators, which left democrats with a one-seat majority. 18-17. joining me now is david serota, a columnist and salon.com contributor. david, this one threatens the democrats' majority in the senate? >> that's exactly right. it is the state senator, represents basically a suburb of denver. here is the thing -- the republicans tried to recall her before in that original set of
recalls that you mentioned. they failed to get the saying? ch -- get the signatures on the ballot. the "denver post" put it well, they said essentially what is going on the creation after the last recalls of perpetual elections. elections that absolutely never end. i would add to that it is the right-wing of the republican party, not willing to accept the, the will of voters in elections. recall after recall after recall. until they get their way. >> david that's what we are seeing in washington too. there is a refusal to accept, acknowledge and work with the outcome of the presidential election which was in its way a referendum on the affordable health care act. we're seeing this same thing. that republicans can't accept election outcomes. >> absolutely. it's the republicans are very frustrated by the will of voters. they're doing everything they can to thwart the will of voters. granted they're allowed to mount the recall. they're using the system. i think this raises questions in
washington and colorado. in washington the question should be, should the filibuster exist the way it does. should the house stymie the will of the public when it wants to? at the state level in colorado we should be asking, should recall elections and the laws that lou themallow the right-wie republican party to stymie the will of the voters here when it comes to gun issues >> david, i find extraordinary that he is worrying publicly if the voters will perceive republicans are trying to win a majority of the senate to an amazing statement. >> it is. the establishment of the republican party, afraid of what the far right-wing of the republican party is saying to the voters. they're afraid that their base essentially is going to marginalize the party from being able to win elections in the future. >> joins us once again on the gun wars in colorado. thank you, david. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> tomorrow night -- on